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Topic: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Replies: 120   Last Post: Oct 29, 2009 8:16 PM

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George Herold

Posts: 13
Registered: 9/8/08
Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Posted: Sep 10, 2008 10:04 AM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

On Sep 9, 8:46 pm, PD <TheDraperFam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 9, 7:30 pm, George Herold <gher...@teachspin.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>

> > On Sep 9, 4:39 pm, PD <TheDraperFam...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Sep 9, 2:37 pm, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net>
> > > wrote:

>
> > > > PD wrote:
> > > > > On Sep 8, 7:19 pm, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net>
> > > > > wrote:

> > > > >> PD wrote:
> > > > >>> There is often a lag of five to ten decades before fundamental
> > > > >>> research surfaces in practical applications.
> > > > >>> This was true in Newton's day, in Lavoisiere's day, in Kelvin's day.
> > > > >>> PD

> > > > >> Sure, we all have our failures.  But the record of particle physics--as
> > > > >> particle physics, not Beef Byproducts like the WWW--is zero useful
> > > > >> results, over 60 years.

>
> > > > > As I believe I just said, it is not unusual at all for five to ten
> > > > > decades to pass before useful applications arise from fundamental
> > > > > research.
> > > > > If you find that an abomination, that's fine -- lobby your congressman
> > > > > to stop funding fundamental research.
> > > > > As for myself, I consider it an unwise display of impatience.

>
> > > > You pulled those numbers out of thin air.
>
> > > > Do you have a recent example of something that sat around for a century
> > > > unused and then made a big splash?  I can't think of one.  Note that we
> > > > aren't talking about Leonardo's helicopter, here--he didn't know how to
> > > > make one fly.  We're talking about Faraday's dynamoelectric effect, or
> > > > the transistor, or....?

>
> > > > Cheers,
>
> > > > Phil Hobbs
>
> > > Sure.
>
> > > Newtonian gravity -- proposed 1687. First practical application, if
> > > you want to call it that: discovery of Neptune 1846 (16 decades).
> > > First big splash: planned trajectories of launched satellites 1950s
> > > (26 decades).

>
> > > Mendelian genetics -- proposed 1866. Ignored until 1918 (5 decades).
> > > First big splash: industrial agricultural breeding for harvest crops
> > > 1950's (7 decades).

>
> > > Boyle's law -- proposed 1662. First practical application: Savery
> > > engine 1712 (5 decades). First big splash: Watt engine 1775 (11
> > > decades).

>
> > > Coulomb's law of charge redistribution in conductors - 1785. First
> > > application: Faraday cage 1836 (5 decades). First big splash:
> > > Electrodynamic revolution 1890's (11 decades).- Hide quoted text -

>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > PD,  Are any of these from the last century... discounting gravity
> > which made a big spalsh before 1950.

>
> Well, I think that's the point.
> Quantum mechanics, originated in the 1930's, has started to make
> significant splash some 50 years later.
> But weak interaction physics, originated in the 1940's, hasn't really
> started to make a splash yet, but could very well in the next two
> decades. Controlled fusion power is the most likely candidate.
> Strong interaction physics, originated in the 1960's, probably won't
> make a splash for another three decades.
> Gravitational physics, originated in 1915 and then ignored for three
> decades, probably won't make a splash for another four decades or so.
>

> > I think the trend of the last 25 years is to exploit any discovery as
> > quickly as possible... before the other guy does it.

>
> That's not so for fundamental research.
>

> >  In the past
> > there just wasn't the competition of today.  You could what till the
> > end of your career and then publish some of thie things you did.
> > Today if there's an aplication or advance it's used right away.  The
> > people at the LHC are not stupid.  If they had found some new "thing"
> > that could make them some money... or get them tenure

>
> Tenure doesn't buy you anything except for continued servitude.
>
>
>

> > you cna bet it
> > wouldn't just sit there for 50 years.
> > George- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


PD,
> But weak interaction physics, originated in the 1940's, hasn't really
> started to make a splash yet, but could very well in the next two
> decades. Controlled fusion power is the most likely candidate.


Wow, are you really expecting some electro-weak application. OK I
guess you are taking the long view! Since I expect nothing from this
in my lifetime (another 30 years if I'm lucky), or even my kids
lifetime.

But I do have an example for your view. How about General
Relativity. Without which we would not be able to synchronize all our
clocks in orbit.

George



Date Subject Author
9/8/08
Read Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
mrdarrett@gmail.com
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Uncle Al
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
PeterD
9/10/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
John Larkin
9/10/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
BobW
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Phil Hobbs
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
The Sorcerer
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Rich the Philosophizer
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
The Sorcerer
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Rich the Philosophizer
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
donald
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
The Sorcerer
9/9/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Rich Grise
9/9/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
PD
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
JohnF
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Phil Hobbs
9/9/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
JohnF
9/9/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
John Larkin
9/11/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
JohnF
9/11/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Calorie
9/11/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
KeithK
9/11/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Michael A. Terrell
9/11/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
KeithK
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Paul Hovnanian P.E.
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
John Larkin
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Rich Grise
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
John Larkin
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Rich Grise
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
John Larkin
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Paul Hovnanian P.E.
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Greg Neill
9/9/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Richard The Dreaded Libertarian
9/9/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
mrdarrett@gmail.com
9/9/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
John Larkin
9/9/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Richard The Dreaded Libertarian
9/9/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
John Larkin
9/9/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Martin Griffith
9/9/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Craymore
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
mrdarrett@gmail.com
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Paul Hovnanian P.E.
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com
9/9/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Michael Press
9/9/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Guest
9/9/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com
9/9/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
John Larkin
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Paul Hovnanian P.E.
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
John Larkin
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Martin Griffith
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
John Larkin
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Martin Griffith
9/9/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
krw
9/10/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
jmfbahciv
9/10/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Michael A. Terrell
9/11/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
jmfbahciv
9/11/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Michael A. Terrell
9/12/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
jmfbahciv
9/12/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Michael A. Terrell
9/13/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
joseph2k
9/11/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Dirk Bruere at Neopax
9/11/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Michael A. Terrell
9/11/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Richard The Dreaded Libertarian
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Phil Hobbs
9/9/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Martin Brown
9/9/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Tim Williams
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Klaus Bahner
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Phil Hobbs
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Paul Hovnanian P.E.
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Mike
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
George Herold
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Kevin Aylward
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Martin Griffith
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Michael A. Terrell
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
RFI-EMI-GUY
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
mensanator
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
mrdarrett@gmail.com
9/9/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Gib Bogle
9/9/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Michael Press
9/12/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Dr Ivan D. Reid
9/12/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
jmfbahciv
9/12/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Tim Williams
9/12/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
The Sorcerer
9/12/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Dr Ivan D. Reid
9/13/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
jmfbahciv
9/9/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
PD
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Mike
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
mensanator
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
PD
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Phil Hobbs
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Phil Hobbs
9/8/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
George Herold
9/9/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
PD
9/9/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Phil Hobbs
9/9/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
PD
9/9/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
George Herold
9/9/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
PD
9/9/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Phil Hobbs
9/9/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Dirk Bruere at Neopax
9/9/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Phil Hobbs
9/10/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
PD
9/10/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Phil Hobbs
9/10/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
George Herold
9/9/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
PD
9/9/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
srp2inc@gmail.com
9/9/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Y.Porat
9/10/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Jeroen Belleman
9/10/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
The Sorcerer
9/10/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Jeroen Belleman
9/10/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
The Sorcerer
9/10/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Michael A. Terrell
9/10/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Rich Grise
9/10/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Jeroen Belleman
9/10/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
The Sorcerer
9/11/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Frank Buss
9/11/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
The Sorcerer
9/13/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
cjcountess
10/29/09
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
John Doe
10/29/09
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
christofire
10/29/09
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Archimedes' Lever
10/29/09
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Les Cargill
9/13/08
Read Re: Newsweek: The Large Hadron Collider
Pooh Bear

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