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Topic: Google groups
Replies: 55   Last Post: Aug 8, 2011 11:48 PM

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fishfry

Posts: 1,368
Registered: 12/6/04
Re: Google groups
Posted: Jul 25, 2011 2:52 PM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

In article <l2c62mqq1vh.fsf@shaggy.csail.mit.edu>,
Bill Dubuque <wgd@nestle.csail.mit.edu> wrote:

> quasi <quasi@null.set> wrote:
> >fishfry <NOSPAMfishfry@your-mailbox.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>So try as I might, I can't make heads or tails of the bad
> >>vibe and message structure of M.SE. I haven't joined and
> >>I won't be joining.
> >>
> >>The online math community still awaits the genuine successor
> >>to Usenet. A venue that allows free and open discussion, with
> >>JUST ENOUGH moderation to keep the place sane.

> >
> > I don't see that there needs to be a successor.

>
> MSE/MO do not claim to be successors to sci.math.
>


Hi Bill, Thank you for responding. Below you mixed replies to things I
said and things other people said in response to my post.

I don't think MSE claims to be a successor. It's just that ever since
the major ISP's dropped Usenet last year, the quality of sci.math has
gone way down and people like myself are looking for a successor. I've
been reading MSE for months and don't like it.



> > As far as free and open discussion goes, Usenet can't be beat.
> >
> > As far as the nonsense posts, filtering most of them out is
> > fairly easy, and one can quickly delete any of the remaining
> > messages which are not of interest.
> >
> > Moreover, Usenet already allows for moderated groups, so
> > if things get really bad, creating a new group such as say,
> > sci.math.moderated, is always an option.

>
> The problem is not moderation but, rather, attracting new users.
>

> > While it's true that some valuable sci.math ex-regulars have
> > switched to MSE, sci.math still has lots of fine participants,
> > and over time, I expect that more will join.

>
> Many of the most prolific and most knowledgeable sci.math folks now
> spend more time on MO and MSE. That trend will surely continue.
>

> > But let's talk about free speech.
> >
> > Usenet allows true free speech, something easily taken for
> > granted. It's the kind of thing where you don't realize how
> > valuable it is until you lose it.

>
> Why do you think you'd lose free speech on MSE?
>


Because I read MSE every day. Step out of line over there and you get
stepped on -- or worse, edited. As a longtime participant in online
forums, I don't care if someone disagrees with me or calls me names. But
to unilaterally edit my words and THEN attack me? I simply cannot abide
MSE's method of operation.


> > To underscore the free speech aspect, note that Bill Dubuque
> > and others have repeatedly advertised the MSE site in sci.math,
> > potentially drawing away sci.math participants to what is,
> > in effect, a competitor site. While such advertising might be
> > considered as being in bad form, it was at least allowed.

>
> I've mentioned MSE a few times, so that others know about it. I also
> mention many other resources in links in my posts. You're the first
> to refer to such helpful links as "advertising" or "competition".
> So much for freedom of speech.
>


You were vocal in one MSE thread about the virtues of MSE as a sci.math
replacement. I did not use the words advertising or competition, those
were someone else's post.



> > As an experiment, try that in MSE. Try posting comments in MSE
> > encouraging participants to switch over to sci.math. Do you
> > think such comments would survive very long?

>
> Where did you get the strange idea that such links "won't survive long"?
> I've already posted at MSE many links to my old posts at sci.math
> and elsewhere. I've also posted many critical remarks about the
> software platform. They all survive.
>


Again, not my words.



> Perhaps you should try using MSE before posting bizarre speculations.
>


I have been reading it daily for about three months, and also MO. On MSE
I'm constantly confused by the replies till I realize that most of the
time the order has been permuted and the OP's words edited. MSE is not
to my liking.


> > Bottom line -- flaws and all, I appreciate sci.math for the
> > unique gem that it is.

>
> The glory days of sci.math are long gone. It's been a long downhill slide
> ever since eternal September. There are now better forums for teaching
> and learning mathematics, e.g. math.stackexchange.com and mathoverflow.net
>


For teaching and learning, perhaps. For discussing? No. Some of us are
neither active students nor active professionals. Sci.math used to be a
great venue for us; now it's not. But MSE is not a discussion forum and
is very unwelcoming.


Date Subject Author
6/29/11
Read Google groups
umumenu@gmail.com
6/29/11
Read Re: Google groups
Virgil
6/29/11
Read Re: Google groups
William Elliot
6/29/11
Read Re: Google groups
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
6/29/11
Read Re: Google groups
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
8/8/11
Read Re: Google groups
Transfer Principle
6/29/11
Read Re: Google groups
PianoMan
6/30/11
Read Re: Google groups
Pfsszxt@aol.com
7/2/11
Read Re: Google groups
Bill Dubuque
7/2/11
Read Re: Google groups
Transfer Principle
7/4/11
Read Re: Google groups
Bill Dubuque
7/8/11
Read Re: Google groups
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/2/11
Read Re: Google groups
Transfer Principle
7/4/11
Read Re: Google groups
OwlHoot
7/5/11
Read Re: Google groups
Bill Dubuque
7/5/11
Read Re: Google groups
Stephen J. Herschkorn
7/5/11
Read Re: Google groups
Bill Dubuque
7/6/11
Read Google groups
William Elliot
7/6/11
Read Re: Google groups
Bill Dubuque
7/7/11
Read Re: Google groups
quasi
7/7/11
Read Re: Google groups
Bill Dubuque
7/8/11
Read Re: Google groups
William Elliot
7/8/11
Read Re: Google groups
Bill Dubuque
7/9/11
Read Re: Google groups
William Elliot
7/9/11
Read Re: Google groups
Bill Dubuque
7/10/11
Read Re: Google groups
William Elliot
7/10/11
Read Re: Google groups
David Bernier
7/10/11
Read Re: Google groups
David Bernier
7/10/11
Read Re: Google groups
Bill Dubuque
7/10/11
Read Re: Google groups
David Bernier
7/23/11
Read Re: Google groups
fishfry
7/24/11
Read Re: Google groups
quasi
7/24/11
Read Re: Google groups
Gerry Myerson
7/25/11
Read Re: Google groups
Bill Dubuque
7/25/11
Read Re: Google groups
fishfry
7/25/11
Read Re: Google groups
Bill Dubuque
7/26/11
Read Google groups
William Elliot
7/26/11
Read Re: Google groups
Bill Dubuque
7/26/11
Read Re: Google groups
William Elliot
7/24/11
Read Re: Google groups
William Elliot
7/24/11
Read Re: Google groups
Gerry Myerson
7/25/11
Read Re: Google groups
Bill Dubuque
7/28/11
Read Google groups
William Elliot
7/28/11
Read Re: Google groups
Gerry Myerson
7/29/11
Read Re: Google groups
William Elliot
7/29/11
Read Re: Google groups
Bill Dubuque
7/30/11
Read Re: Google groups
William Elliot
7/24/11
Read Re: Google groups
Gerry Myerson
7/25/11
Read Re: Google groups
Bill Dubuque
7/10/11
Read Google groups
William Elliot
7/10/11
Read Re: Google groups
Bill Dubuque
7/11/11
Read Re: Google groups
William Elliot
7/11/11
Read Re: Google groups
Bill Dubuque
7/12/11
Read Google groups
William Elliot
7/7/11
Read Re: Google groups
Dave L. Renfro
7/7/11
Read Re: Google groups
Dave L. Renfro

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