In article <firstname.lastname@example.org>, Bill Dubuque <email@example.com> wrote:
> quasi <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote: > >fishfry <NOSPAMfishfry@your-mailbox.com> wrote: > >> > >>So try as I might, I can't make heads or tails of the bad > >>vibe and message structure of M.SE. I haven't joined and > >>I won't be joining. > >> > >>The online math community still awaits the genuine successor > >>to Usenet. A venue that allows free and open discussion, with > >>JUST ENOUGH moderation to keep the place sane. > > > > I don't see that there needs to be a successor. > > MSE/MO do not claim to be successors to sci.math. >
Hi Bill, Thank you for responding. Below you mixed replies to things I said and things other people said in response to my post.
I don't think MSE claims to be a successor. It's just that ever since the major ISP's dropped Usenet last year, the quality of sci.math has gone way down and people like myself are looking for a successor. I've been reading MSE for months and don't like it.
> > As far as free and open discussion goes, Usenet can't be beat. > > > > As far as the nonsense posts, filtering most of them out is > > fairly easy, and one can quickly delete any of the remaining > > messages which are not of interest. > > > > Moreover, Usenet already allows for moderated groups, so > > if things get really bad, creating a new group such as say, > > sci.math.moderated, is always an option. > > The problem is not moderation but, rather, attracting new users. > > > While it's true that some valuable sci.math ex-regulars have > > switched to MSE, sci.math still has lots of fine participants, > > and over time, I expect that more will join. > > Many of the most prolific and most knowledgeable sci.math folks now > spend more time on MO and MSE. That trend will surely continue. > > > But let's talk about free speech. > > > > Usenet allows true free speech, something easily taken for > > granted. It's the kind of thing where you don't realize how > > valuable it is until you lose it. > > Why do you think you'd lose free speech on MSE? >
Because I read MSE every day. Step out of line over there and you get stepped on -- or worse, edited. As a longtime participant in online forums, I don't care if someone disagrees with me or calls me names. But to unilaterally edit my words and THEN attack me? I simply cannot abide MSE's method of operation.
> > To underscore the free speech aspect, note that Bill Dubuque > > and others have repeatedly advertised the MSE site in sci.math, > > potentially drawing away sci.math participants to what is, > > in effect, a competitor site. While such advertising might be > > considered as being in bad form, it was at least allowed. > > I've mentioned MSE a few times, so that others know about it. I also > mention many other resources in links in my posts. You're the first > to refer to such helpful links as "advertising" or "competition". > So much for freedom of speech. >
You were vocal in one MSE thread about the virtues of MSE as a sci.math replacement. I did not use the words advertising or competition, those were someone else's post.
> > As an experiment, try that in MSE. Try posting comments in MSE > > encouraging participants to switch over to sci.math. Do you > > think such comments would survive very long? > > Where did you get the strange idea that such links "won't survive long"? > I've already posted at MSE many links to my old posts at sci.math > and elsewhere. I've also posted many critical remarks about the > software platform. They all survive. >
Again, not my words.
> Perhaps you should try using MSE before posting bizarre speculations. >
I have been reading it daily for about three months, and also MO. On MSE I'm constantly confused by the replies till I realize that most of the time the order has been permuted and the OP's words edited. MSE is not to my liking.
> > Bottom line -- flaws and all, I appreciate sci.math for the > > unique gem that it is. > > The glory days of sci.math are long gone. It's been a long downhill slide > ever since eternal September. There are now better forums for teaching > and learning mathematics, e.g. math.stackexchange.com and mathoverflow.net >
For teaching and learning, perhaps. For discussing? No. Some of us are neither active students nor active professionals. Sci.math used to be a great venue for us; now it's not. But MSE is not a discussion forum and is very unwelcoming.