Drexel dragonThe Math ForumDonate to the Math Forum



Search All of the Math Forum:

Views expressed in these public forums are not endorsed by Drexel University or The Math Forum.


Math Forum » Discussions » sci.math.* » sci.math.independent

Topic: Google groups
Replies: 55   Last Post: Aug 8, 2011 11:48 PM

Advanced Search

Back to Topic List Back to Topic List Jump to Tree View Jump to Tree View   Messages: [ Previous | Next ]
Bill Dubuque

Posts: 1,739
Registered: 12/6/04
Re: Google groups
Posted: Jul 25, 2011 11:35 PM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

fishfry <BLOCKSPAMfishfry@your-mailbox.com> wrote:
>Bill Dubuque <wgd@nestle.csail.mit.edu> wrote:
>>quasi <quasi@null.set> wrote:
>>>fishfry <NOSPAMfishfry@your-mailbox.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>So try as I might, I can't make heads or tails of the bad
>>>>vibe and message structure of M.SE. I haven't joined and
>>>>I won't be joining.
>>>>
>>>>The online math community still awaits the genuine successor
>>>>to Usenet. A venue that allows free and open discussion, with
>>>>JUST ENOUGH moderation to keep the place sane.

>>>
>>> I don't see that there needs to be a successor.

>>
>> MSE/MO do not claim to be successors to sci.math.

>
> Hi Bill, Thank you for responding. Below you mixed replies to
> things I said and things other people said in response to my post.


I replied to a post of quasi (who replied to your post). Perhaps
your newsreader did not parse the formatting correctly? Below
you are commenting on my reply to quasi, as if it were addressed
to you (which it was not).

> I don't think MSE claims to be a successor. It's just that ever since
> the major ISP's dropped Usenet last year, the quality of sci.math has
> gone way down and people like myself are looking for a successor. I've
> been reading MSE for months and don't like it.


I'm puzzled why anyone wouldn't like MSE. Why don't you like it?

>>> As far as free and open discussion goes, Usenet can't be beat.
>>>
>>> As far as the nonsense posts, filtering most of them out is
>>> fairly easy, and one can quickly delete any of the remaining
>>> messages which are not of interest.
>>>
>>> Moreover, Usenet already allows for moderated groups, so
>>> if things get really bad, creating a new group such as say,
>>> sci.math.moderated, is always an option.

>>
>> The problem is not moderation but, rather, attracting new users.
>>

>>> While it's true that some valuable sci.math ex-regulars have
>>> switched to MSE, sci.math still has lots of fine participants,
>>> and over time, I expect that more will join.

>>
>> Many of the most prolific and most knowledgeable sci.math folks now
>> spend more time on MO and MSE. That trend will surely continue.
>>

>>> But let's talk about free speech.
>>>
>>> Usenet allows true free speech, something easily taken for
>>> granted. It's the kind of thing where you don't realize how
>>> valuable it is until you lose it.

>>
>> Why do you think you'd lose free speech on MSE?

>
> Because I read MSE every day. Step out of line over there and you get
> stepped on -- or worse, edited. As a longtime participant in online
> forums, I don't care if someone disagrees with me or calls me names. But
> to unilaterally edit my words and THEN attack me? I simply cannot abide
> MSE's method of operation.


Stepped on??? Are you possibly confusing MSE with some other site?
The friction on MSE is orders of magnitude less than sci.math.

Nobody "unilaterally edits your words". That's not how editing
works on SE platforms. The only edits that are generally allowed by
others are very minor things like fixing typos or latex errors. You
are worried about situations that never arise in practice on MSE.

Any moderated forum has policies on spam, personal attacks, etc.
On SE sites the entire community helps filter out such content.
Rarely if ever does this affect most MSE users. It's a non-issue
(except for someone who desires to post such off-topic content).
If you're looking for a place to flame, bash cranks, then, yes,
MSE is not the place. Otherwise it's the current go-to forum
for general level mathematics. Nothing else comes close.

>>> To underscore the free speech aspect, note that Bill Dubuque
>>> and others have repeatedly advertised the MSE site in sci.math,
>>> potentially drawing away sci.math participants to what is,
>>> in effect, a competitor site. While such advertising might be
>>> considered as being in bad form, it was at least allowed.

>>
>> I've mentioned MSE a few times, so that others know about it. I also
>> mention many other resources in links in my posts. You're the first
>> to refer to such helpful links as "advertising" or "competition".
>> So much for freedom of speech.

>
> You were vocal in one MSE thread about the virtues of MSE as a sci.math
> replacement.


I never called MSE a sci.math "replacement". I merely pointed it out
as another (currently richer) forum to teach and learn math.

>>> As an experiment, try that in MSE. Try posting comments in MSE
>>> encouraging participants to switch over to sci.math. Do you
>>> think such comments would survive very long?

>>
>> Where did you get the strange idea that such links "won't survive long"?
>> I've already posted at MSE many links to my old posts at sci.math
>> and elsewhere. I've also posted many critical remarks about the
>> software platform. They all survive.
>>
>> Perhaps you should try using MSE before posting bizarre speculations.

>
> I have been reading it daily for about three months, and also MO. On MSE
> I'm constantly confused by the replies till I realize that most of the
> time the order has been permuted and the OP's words edited. MSE is not
> to my liking.


Rarely if ever are an "OP's words edited" (except occasionally to fix
typos or latex errors). I've posted 995 answers and many more comments
on MSE over the last year and they've never been edited by others,
except a handful of times to fix spelling/typos. It's a non-issue.

As for the ordering of comments: when there are more than a handful of
comments, only the highest rated handful are displayed. To see the rest
click on "show more", which will show them all in chronological order.
Again this is a non-issue. Please read the FAQs.

>>> Bottom line -- flaws and all, I appreciate sci.math for the
>>> unique gem that it is.

>>
>> The glory days of sci.math are long gone. It's been a long downhill slide
>> ever since eternal September. There are now better forums for teaching
>> and learning mathematics, e.g. math.stackexchange.com and mathoverflow.net

>
> For teaching and learning, perhaps. For discussing? No. Some of us are
> neither active students nor active professionals. Sci.math used to be a
> great venue for us; now it's not. But MSE is not a discussion forum and
> is very unwelcoming.


Precisely what sort of "discussions" do you think can not be had on MSE?
Why do you think that MSE is "unwelcoming"?


Date Subject Author
6/29/11
Read Google groups
umumenu@gmail.com
6/29/11
Read Re: Google groups
Virgil
6/29/11
Read Re: Google groups
William Elliot
6/29/11
Read Re: Google groups
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
6/29/11
Read Re: Google groups
Tim Golden http://bandtech.com
8/8/11
Read Re: Google groups
Transfer Principle
6/29/11
Read Re: Google groups
PianoMan
6/30/11
Read Re: Google groups
Pfsszxt@aol.com
7/2/11
Read Re: Google groups
Bill Dubuque
7/2/11
Read Re: Google groups
Transfer Principle
7/4/11
Read Re: Google groups
Bill Dubuque
7/8/11
Read Re: Google groups
mueckenh@rz.fh-augsburg.de
7/2/11
Read Re: Google groups
Transfer Principle
7/4/11
Read Re: Google groups
OwlHoot
7/5/11
Read Re: Google groups
Bill Dubuque
7/5/11
Read Re: Google groups
Stephen J. Herschkorn
7/5/11
Read Re: Google groups
Bill Dubuque
7/6/11
Read Google groups
William Elliot
7/6/11
Read Re: Google groups
Bill Dubuque
7/7/11
Read Re: Google groups
quasi
7/7/11
Read Re: Google groups
Bill Dubuque
7/8/11
Read Re: Google groups
William Elliot
7/8/11
Read Re: Google groups
Bill Dubuque
7/9/11
Read Re: Google groups
William Elliot
7/9/11
Read Re: Google groups
Bill Dubuque
7/10/11
Read Re: Google groups
William Elliot
7/10/11
Read Re: Google groups
David Bernier
7/10/11
Read Re: Google groups
David Bernier
7/10/11
Read Re: Google groups
Bill Dubuque
7/10/11
Read Re: Google groups
David Bernier
7/23/11
Read Re: Google groups
fishfry
7/24/11
Read Re: Google groups
quasi
7/24/11
Read Re: Google groups
Gerry Myerson
7/25/11
Read Re: Google groups
Bill Dubuque
7/25/11
Read Re: Google groups
fishfry
7/25/11
Read Re: Google groups
Bill Dubuque
7/26/11
Read Google groups
William Elliot
7/26/11
Read Re: Google groups
Bill Dubuque
7/26/11
Read Re: Google groups
William Elliot
7/24/11
Read Re: Google groups
William Elliot
7/24/11
Read Re: Google groups
Gerry Myerson
7/25/11
Read Re: Google groups
Bill Dubuque
7/28/11
Read Google groups
William Elliot
7/28/11
Read Re: Google groups
Gerry Myerson
7/29/11
Read Re: Google groups
William Elliot
7/29/11
Read Re: Google groups
Bill Dubuque
7/30/11
Read Re: Google groups
William Elliot
7/24/11
Read Re: Google groups
Gerry Myerson
7/25/11
Read Re: Google groups
Bill Dubuque
7/10/11
Read Google groups
William Elliot
7/10/11
Read Re: Google groups
Bill Dubuque
7/11/11
Read Re: Google groups
William Elliot
7/11/11
Read Re: Google groups
Bill Dubuque
7/12/11
Read Google groups
William Elliot
7/7/11
Read Re: Google groups
Dave L. Renfro
7/7/11
Read Re: Google groups
Dave L. Renfro

Point your RSS reader here for a feed of the latest messages in this topic.

[Privacy Policy] [Terms of Use]

© Drexel University 1994-2014. All Rights Reserved.
The Math Forum is a research and educational enterprise of the Drexel University School of Education.