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Topic: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Replies: 90   Last Post: Dec 27, 2012 1:36 PM

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Greg Goodknight

Posts: 1,183
Registered: 12/6/04
Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Posted: Dec 17, 2012 12:51 AM
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At the same time Virginia Tech was mourning their dead within their gun
free zones, the University of Utah was trying to decide if they should
give freshmen the power to demand a roommate that didn't have a
concealed weapons permit who would be storing their weapon in their
shared room, because the Utah Supreme Court decided that UU couldn't ban
students legally carrying concealed or having weapons in their rooms.
Personally, I hope such freshmen were granted that power to have gun
free living quarters while noting there haven't been any mass shootings
at UU.

The Colorado theater shooter chose not to shoot up his UC (the state
Supremes overturned the ban on concealed carry at the university last
March) and instead chose a mall theater that banned concealed weapons.
They had every right to do so, but it turns out a sociopath determined
to kill a lot of people generally don't follow those rules.

A recent Oregon mall shooting ended quickly, apparently because a young
man legally carrying concealed drew his weapon and aimed at the gunman,
who noted this, withdrew into a store and shot himself. The young man
carrying legally and ethically didn't shoot because there was an
innocent behind the gunman that would have been hit had his aim been
faulty, but it just took the threat to end the carnage.

At some point it might be reasonable to note that such codes of conduct
only cover people who have not made a conscious decision to go out in a
blaze of glory as a homicidal maniac and those who do usually keep at it
until they're through, usually when armed good guys show up.

- -Greg

On 12/16/2012 07:27 PM, kirby urner wrote:
> I've been looking at this issue with regard to Codes of Conduct.
> These come in many flavors: for companies, for conferences, for
> students and universities.
>
> Corporations
>
> Many corporations explicitly forbid carrying a firearm onto the
> premises. Sometimes there's contention w/r to the parking lot and
> whether a personal vehicle should be considered a permitted place to
> store one's gun while working. Some companies ban this practice
> saying the parking lot is theirs and their policy extends to all of
> their properties. Exceptions are made only for security guards,
> police etc.
>
> http://www.pgecorp.com/aboutus/corp_gov/coce/employee_conduct_standards.shtml#1g
>
> Universities
>
> Student codes of conduct routinely ban firearms from campus, as well
> as BB guns, pellet guns, air guns, paintball guns. They may likewise
> ban intoxicants, pets, appliances above a certain wattage etc.
>
> http://www.uakron.edu/sja/code-of-conduct.dot
>
> Conferences
>
> Conferences currently seem the most loose as their codes of conduct
> tend to focus on anti-harassment issues and keeping conversations
> civil. Typical of conference codes of conduct:
>
> http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/2012/06/26/this-is-how-its-done-american-atheists-announces-code-of-conduct-for-conferences/
>
> Note: no mention of firearms.
>
> Clearly a conference hosted by a university or company would not be
> allowed to circumvent the code of that institution, or would it? If
> an outside groups rents space at a college or university during the
> summer, does the student code of conduct apply to them? If a company
> donates space to a non-profit for a meeting, can it enforce a no-carry
> rule even in a state that permits carrying?
>
> Restaurants reserve the right to refuse service to anyone (so says the
> sign).
>
> "No shirt, no shoes, no service" is common.
>
> So what about "Got a gun? Keep out. Private Property."
>
> Can you post that on a hotel or restaurant door? There seems to be
> some consensus, among USA citizens at least, that such signs may be
> safely (legally) ignored, at least in states that permit open or
> concealed carrying.
>
> http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-276747.html
>
> The issue is gripping many in the USA not just because of school
> shootings (which have been many) but because of the new generation of
> "stand your ground" laws, which appear to make it easier to claim self
> defense even when it turns out the only person with a gun at the scene
> considered themselves a potential victim, while the person ending up
> dead was not carrying a weapon ("how was I supposed to know?").
>
> These issues are germane in that the Python Software Foundation has
> been developing its code of conduct for its international
> conferences. Obviously "one size fits all" need not be a goal.
>
> We have gotten as far as stipulating that for PSF to be involved in a
> supportive role, *some* code of conduct needs to be on the books, but
> the details may be left to the locale (and need not be in the English
> language, though translations would make sense if the conference is
> truly international).
>
> Here's the US Pycon code of conduct (current version). Nothing about
> guns though. More like the Atheist thing.
>
> https://us.pycon.org/2013/about/code-of-conduct/
>
> Kirby



Date Subject Author
12/16/12
Read Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
GS Chandy
12/16/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Robert Hansen
12/16/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
GS Chandy
12/16/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social
engineering'?
Wayne Bishop
12/16/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Jeff Bishop
12/17/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
kirby urner
12/17/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Greg Goodknight
12/17/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
kirby urner
12/16/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Robert Hansen
12/17/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social
engineering'?
Wayne Bishop
12/17/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Gary Tupper
12/17/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Jeff Bishop
12/17/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Robert Hansen
12/17/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Robert Hansen
12/16/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social
engineering'?
GS Chandy
12/16/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social
engineering'?
Louis Talman
12/17/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Gary Tupper
12/17/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
GS Chandy
12/17/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social
engineering'?
casestudy
12/17/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social
engineering'?
Michael Paul Goldenberg
12/17/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Robert Hansen
12/17/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Robert Hansen
12/17/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social
engineering'?
Michael Paul Goldenberg
12/17/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social
engineering'?
Michael Paul Goldenberg
12/17/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Robert Hansen
12/17/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Robert Hansen
12/17/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Paul A. Tanner III
12/17/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social
engineering'?
GS Chandy
12/17/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social
engineering'?
GS Chandy
12/17/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social
engineering'?
GS Chandy
12/17/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social
engineering'?
GS Chandy
12/17/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Robert Hansen
12/18/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
GS Chandy
12/18/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
GS Chandy
12/18/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social
engineering'?
GS Chandy
12/18/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Greg Goodknight
12/19/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Robert Hansen
12/19/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
GS Chandy
12/19/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social
engineering'?
GS Chandy
12/19/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Robert Hansen
12/19/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Paul A. Tanner III
12/19/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Robert Hansen
12/19/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Paul A. Tanner III
12/19/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Gary Tupper
12/19/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Robert Hansen
12/19/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Robert Hansen
12/19/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
kirby urner
12/19/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Robert Hansen
12/19/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
kirby urner
12/19/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Robert Hansen
12/19/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
kirby urner
12/19/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Robert Hansen
12/19/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
kirby urner
12/19/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Robert Hansen
12/20/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
kirby urner
12/20/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Paul A. Tanner III
12/20/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
kirby urner
12/21/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Paul A. Tanner III
12/21/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
kirby urner
12/21/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Paul A. Tanner III
12/19/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social
engineering'?
GS Chandy
12/19/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social
engineering'?
GS Chandy
12/19/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Robert Hansen
12/19/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social
engineering'?
GS Chandy
12/20/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
GS Chandy
12/20/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Robert Hansen
12/20/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Paul A. Tanner III
12/20/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Robert Hansen
12/21/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Paul A. Tanner III
12/20/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social
engineering'?
GS Chandy
12/20/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social
engineering'?
Michael Paul Goldenberg
12/20/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social
engineering'?
GS Chandy
12/22/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social
engineering'?
GS Chandy
12/22/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Paul A. Tanner III
12/22/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Robert Hansen
12/23/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Paul A. Tanner III
12/23/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Gary Tupper
12/22/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social
engineering'?
GS Chandy
12/23/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
GS Chandy
12/23/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Paul A. Tanner III
12/24/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Robert Hansen
12/25/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
Paul A. Tanner III
12/23/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
GS Chandy
12/23/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social
engineering'?
Haim
12/24/12
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GS Chandy
12/25/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
GS Chandy
12/26/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social
engineering'?
GS Chandy
12/26/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
kirby urner
12/26/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social
engineering'?
GS Chandy
12/27/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social engineering'?
GS Chandy
12/27/12
Read Re: Would effective gun control laws be 'unacceptable social
engineering'?
GS Chandy

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