Joe N. posted Mar 28, 2014 7:34 PM (http://mathforum.org/kb/thread.jspa?threadID=2625970): > > >To a great extent. 'Official Chu find merches' have always > been part of the 'coercive apparat'. > > So I was right, your real gripe is with established > churches wedded to political power. Frankly, > scientific endeavors wedded to political power have > been far more destructive. > > Cheers, > Joe N > So you were NOT right.
Where did you ever see any contradiction from me of your suggestion "scientific endeavours wedded to political power have been far more destructive"?? In modern time it has never (/rarely ever?) been the case that the 'religious establishment' has possessed real 'secular power'.
I COMPLETELY agree with you that - over the past century or so (at least) - "scientific endeavors wedded to political power have been far more destructive" than the 'religious establishment': scientific endeavors have had the power to be destructive where earlier they did not. Possibly the prime example of great power immorally used by the 'science establishment' was the dropping of the A-bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. (It should be noted that there was little protest at that time against this attack by the 'religious establishment').
Today, and for quite some time, the 'religious endeavour has not been able to employ power because it has had little secular power.
Such was not the case when the the 'religious establishment' possessed the power - it used all the power it had to the maximum extent it could. In those days, the 'scientific endeavours' had little credibility (and less power).
You are entirely wrong in your claim that my "real gripe is with established churches wedded to political power". My real gripe is actually that the 'religious endeavour' so willingly permits itself to be used by the political power. THAT is, IMHO, a major 'sin'. I've always felt that a major 'aim' of religion was to rescue us poor humans from sin. (However, I must observe that, in India, the 'religious endeavour' is often speaking out strongly against the misuse of 'state power' against the people - sometimes at considerable cost to those speaking out).
My underlying idea is to try to help people learn how to "think for themselves" - which possibly might enable them to escape the false ideas and values that the 'establishment' will always try to 'sell' them.