The Math Forum



Search All of the Math Forum:

Views expressed in these public forums are not endorsed by NCTM or The Math Forum.


Math Forum » Discussions » sci.math.* » sci.math

Topic: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
Replies: 59   Last Post: Nov 15, 2017 12:43 PM

Advanced Search

Back to Topic List Back to Topic List Jump to Tree View Jump to Tree View   Messages: [ Previous | Next ]
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de

Posts: 3,298
Registered: 10/18/08
Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
Posted: Nov 11, 2017 2:11 PM
  Click to see the message monospaced in plain text Plain Text   Click to reply to this topic Reply

Am Samstag, 11. November 2017 11:07:06 UTC+1 schrieb Zelos Malum:
> Den lördag 11 november 2017 kl. 10:32:09 UTC+1 skrev WM:
> > Am Freitag, 10. November 2017 19:50:36 UTC+1 schrieb Dan Christensen:
> > > On Friday, November 10, 2017 at 9:53:06 AM UTC-5, WM wrote:
> >
> >

> > > >
> > > > Therefore we use only FOL and the axioms of ZF and find that they make ZF uncountable without refering to anything else (that others may call a model but that you don't know and that threfore should not be used when talking to you).

> > >
> > > To prove that ZFC is inconsistent, you must be able to both prove and disprove the same theorem using only FOL and the axioms ZFC.

> >
> > No. My share is done, showing that the power set of the set defined in Axiom VII is uncountable. The other part has been settled by Skolem already.
> >

> > > > > No improvisations or hand waving allowed.
> >
> > Where is that detected? In Skolem's proof? In Hessenbergs proof using axioms VII and IV without any models?
> >

> The fact that |2^N| is uncountable is not an issue in mathematics.

And the fact that N or Z or an equivalent set is in every model of ZF is not an issue either.

Regards, WM



Date Subject Author
11/6/17
Read Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
bassam king karzeddin
11/6/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
11/8/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
bassam king karzeddin
11/8/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
11/8/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
bursejan@gmail.com
11/8/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
bursejan@gmail.com
11/8/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
11/8/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
bursejan@gmail.com
11/8/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
bursejan@gmail.com
11/9/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
bassam king karzeddin
11/9/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
zelos.malum@gmail.com
11/9/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
bassam king karzeddin
11/9/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
bassam king karzeddin
11/9/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
11/9/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
bassam king karzeddin
11/9/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
11/13/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
bassam king karzeddin
11/14/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
11/14/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
genmailus@gmail.com
11/14/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
bursejan@gmail.com
11/14/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
bursejan@gmail.com
11/6/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
Stephen G. Giannoni
11/6/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
zelos.malum@gmail.com
11/7/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
bassam king karzeddin
11/9/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
zelos.malum@gmail.com
11/8/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
jsavard@ecn.ab.ca
11/8/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
bassam king karzeddin
11/8/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
Jim Burns
11/9/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
11/8/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
Jan Burse
11/8/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
Dan Christensen
11/8/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
Dan Christensen
11/8/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
11/8/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
bursejan@gmail.com
11/8/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
bursejan@gmail.com
11/8/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
Jan Burse
11/8/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
Jan Burse
11/11/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
bassam king karzeddin
11/11/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
zelos.malum@gmail.com
11/9/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
11/9/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
Tucsondrew@me.com
11/9/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
11/9/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
11/8/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
Dan Christensen
11/9/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
11/9/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
Tucsondrew@me.com
11/9/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
Dan Christensen
11/9/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
11/9/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
Dan Christensen
11/10/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
11/10/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
Dan Christensen
11/11/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
11/11/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
zelos.malum@gmail.com
11/11/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
wolfgang.mueckenheim@hs-augsburg.de
11/8/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
Peter Percival
11/11/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
bassam king karzeddin
11/11/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
zelos.malum@gmail.com
11/15/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
bassam king karzeddin
11/15/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
Dan Christensen
11/15/17
Read Re: Why do we need those real non-constructible numbers?
zelos.malum@gmail.com

Point your RSS reader here for a feed of the latest messages in this topic.

[Privacy Policy] [Terms of Use]

© The Math Forum at NCTM 1994-2017. All Rights Reserved.