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Topic: Getting students to take responsibility
Replies: 68   Last Post: Oct 23, 1995 11:39 AM

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Dr. William Tomhave

Posts: 10
From: Concordia College, Moorhead, MN
Registered: 12/6/04
Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Posted: Oct 10, 1995 9:26 AM
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I have been lurking on this list for some time, but this one hit my hot
button.

On Mon, 9 Oct 1995 Lutemann@aol.com wrote:

> Any math class greater than 18 is a waste of time. 12 to 15 is the perfect

I know of no research that would substantiate either of these claims
about class size. If we add the 19th student does learning cease? Were
all the classes I took and all the classes I have taught with more than
18 students a waste of time? Is 12 - 15 students always better than one
on one tutoring or working with a group of 2 or 3, or is it better then
the magic maximum of 18? If there is scholarly work that addresses the
issues raised here, I would appreciate it if someone would post it.

> number for just about any teaching/learning situation in that you can
> individualize the instruction and/or teach them as a class. The cut off at
> our school is 18 per class. Of course we have special funding (half from the
> state half from industry) so we don't have to put up with the capriciousness
> of the white-psycho-conservative-tax revolting- trailer park nitwits (you
> know who you are) who don't think that children out our future.


Not eveyone who might disagree with your conclusions should be labeled
like this. Such silly name calling serves no purpose other then to
irritate readers and devalues any additional postings by the author as
merely noise. As a college faculty member, a former high school teacher,
and a parent actively involved with my area schools I have been involved
in discussions of class size. As far as I know there is no research that
establishes any class size as an absolute standard. It certainly is
easier to teach with 15-18 students, but I know of no reports that
demonstrate that the learning is better than in a group of 24 or more.
However I am very much aware of the cost of having to add sections of
classes to meet artificially established class limits.

Please keep discussions of issues like this that deal not only with
instructional opinions but which have significant fiscal impact on school
districts at a professional level that addresses serious questions with
reasoned responses. Postings like that shown above are not helpful in
shedding light on what has become a difficult financial situation for
many school districts.

>
> Kent
>
> Kent
>


By the way, just to clarify:

I am white, I am probably considered to be eccentric but don't think I am
psycho (but of course "they" are the last to know), I am conservative
(and that is probably a no-no in some circles, sorry about that), I am
not a full blown tax-revolter but I believe that schools and other
government agencies must be good stewards of the public resources
entrusted to them (after all it is not their money), I don't live in a
trailor park, I really don't think I am a nit-wit, and I have devoted my
professional career to help children, either directly or indirectly
through their teachers, to be better prepared in mathematics. I merely
question the conclusions in this posting.

Thanks for listening.

Bill


********************************************************************
* *
* William K. (Bill) Tomhave Phone - 218-299-3923 *
* Mathematics Department FAX - 218-299-3947 *
* Concordia College e-mail - tomhave@gloria.cord.edu *
* Moorhead, Minnesota 56562 *
* *
* *
* As you ramble on through life, my friend, *
* whatever be your goal, *
* Keep your eye upon the donut *
* and not upon the hole. *
* *
********************************************************************






Date Subject Author
10/4/95
Read Getting students to take responsibility
TPANITZ@mecn.mass.edu
10/5/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Peter J. Smith
10/5/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Lutemann@aol.com
10/7/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/7/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Johnny Hamilton
10/7/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/7/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Lutemann@aol.com
10/7/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Lutemann@aol.com
10/7/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Andre TOOM
10/7/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Michael Paul Goldenberg
10/7/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Andre TOOM
10/7/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/7/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Michael Paul Goldenberg
10/9/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Michael Paul Goldenberg
10/9/95
Read Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Susan L. Addington
10/9/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Lutemann@aol.com
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Tad Watanabe
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Francis Fennell
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Dr. William Tomhave
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Bill Juraschek
10/9/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Karen Dee Michalowicz
10/23/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Abel R. Lastra
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
DanH150093@aol.com
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
roitman@oberon.math.ukans.edu
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Tad Watanabe
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Bill Juraschek
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
roitman@oberon.math.ukans.edu
10/11/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Virginia L. Keen
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Karen Dee Michalowicz
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Lutemann@aol.com
10/11/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Tad Watanabe
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Lutemann@aol.com
10/10/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Lutemann@aol.com
10/11/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Tad Watanabe
10/11/95
Read Re: Class size (Re: Getting students to take responsibility)
Michael Paul Goldenberg
10/9/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Bill Juraschek
10/9/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Michael Paul Goldenberg
10/10/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/10/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Ted Alper
10/10/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
roitman@oberon.math.ukans.edu
10/10/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Ted Alper
10/10/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Johnny Hamilton
10/10/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/10/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Lutemann@aol.com
10/10/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Michael Paul Goldenberg
10/10/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Michael Paul Goldenberg
10/10/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/11/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/11/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Michael Paul Goldenberg
10/11/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
clarkcc@PLU.edu
10/11/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Lutemann@aol.com
10/11/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
roitman@oberon.math.ukans.edu
10/11/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Ted Alper
10/11/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
roitman@oberon.math.ukans.edu
10/11/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
roitman@oberon.math.ukans.edu
10/13/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/13/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/13/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/13/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Francis Fennell
10/13/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
roitman@oberon.math.ukans.edu
10/17/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Howard L. Hansen
10/18/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/18/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
Michael Paul Goldenberg
10/19/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
DanH150093@aol.com
10/19/95
Read You guys...
W Gary Martin
10/19/95
Read Re: You guys...
M. Matras
10/20/95
Read Re: You guys...
DanH150093@aol.com
10/20/95
Read Re: You guys...
Janet V Smith
10/19/95
Read Re: Getting students to take responsibility
roitman@oberon.math.ukans.edu

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